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Who is worse, Obama or Bush?


By Dark Politricks

Today I want to ask a question of my American friends and readers. Friends who might call themselves Liberals, Conservatives, Right Wingers or Left wingers, or the many that consider themselves to be sitting outside the mainstream swing-ball game between left and right.

The one thing I hope many people who come to this site have in common whatever their political view is their respect for liberty, personal freedoms and a view that the current war on terror is nothing more than a pantomime that is allowing those in power to restrict and remove these freedoms which have been hard won over many years.

Therefore putting partisan political loyalties aside the question I want to ask is who has been the worst president over the last ten years?

George Bush for implementing the decade old war on terror, the high tech modern Stasi Amerikan police state and the corporate takeover of the government or Barack Obama for failing to do anything about it once elected.

It is a sad state of affairs to see the same people whether they be politicians, TV pundits or the public attack the current incumbents actions when they did not utter a word of criticism for the previous holder of the office. The reverse is also true when people from the other “side” of US politics now excuse or defend Obama when they were venomously attacking Bush for the same actions only a few years ago.

There is no doubt that after 9.11 the Bush administration used it as the reason to implement some draconian measures at home including the Patriot Act, Warrantless Wiretapping, allowing the torture of prisoners deemed to be terrorists, the illegal war in Iraq as well as as the war in Afghanistan as well as the horrible act of Extraordinary rendition.

He also presided over the creation of the new term “enemy combatant”. Through the use of dubious loopholes, clever lawyers and a disregard for morals and international law he has created a new form of prisoner who can be detained indefinitely without habeas corpus in offshore prisons. Even though most of the people detained in Guantanamo  Bay were innocent and the Bush administration knew it they were left to rot and to be tortured anyway with little hope of ever being brought to trial or be freed.

He has also allowed the US police force to become militarised and to treat all forms of legitimate protest with disdain with the expansion of free speech zones as well as expanding the term terrorist to mean include many forms of political opponent including constitutionalists, militia members, libertarians and ex soldiers. These laws and actions which should have no place in a democratic civilised country are a sign that America has allowed any remaining semblance of its claim to moral superiority to be washed away in a river of self induced fear.

The list of abuses against civil liberties and the complete disregard for the constitution which Bush famously called “just a Goddammed piece of paper” are long and extensive and we have not even looked at the corporate takeover of the government which allowed for the multi billion dollar bailout of the banks and the expansion of the government debt by trillions.

So there is a lot to blame Bush for and it is no wonder that during the last presidential election many people were taken in by Barack Obama’s brilliant rhetoric and emotive speeches which promised everyone “Change we could believe in”. Many people from across the political spectrum actually believed Obama when he said he would roll back the worst excesses of the Bush years, end the wars and restore the many civil liberties lost under the war on terror.

Therefore it is no wonder that many Democrats, Independents and even liberty loving Republicans who wanted to see such a rollback of the police state were very disappointed with the absolute failure of Obama to match his words with deeds once he was elected.

Instead of repealing the laws that took away Americans liberties and freedoms he has extended them. The Patriot Act is still in existence and Obama is happy to continue the previous administrations illegal practise of warrantless wiretapping as well as extending the immoral practise of extraordinary rendition which sends terrorist suspects to black hole prisons overseas so that they can be tortured with no oversight. It seems that Obama’s pledge to  “restoring America’s moral authority” and help fix the damaged reputation the USA had suffered on the global stage was little more than empty words.

In fact instead of ending the war on terror he has expanded it into Yemen and Pakistan and there is still no end in sight to the war in Afghanistan. The removal of combat troops from Iraq was little more than a publicity stunt as 50,000 soldiers remain in their huge multi million dollar bases throughout the country and Obama has gone further than Bush ever did by publicly announcing the practise of extrajudicial  assassinations of American citizens who he feels may pose a threat.

Instead of cracking down on the bankers who have taken the US economy hostage he has allowed their rape and pillaging of US Main Street to continue whilst helping Wall Street continue to feast from any fat that remains in the land. Any laws he has tried to introduce that may have pleased Democrats such as the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Bill or the health care reform bill have been watered down so much that they have turned potential opportunities to change society for the better into another sop to commercial interests. The power of vested interests and lobbyists were on full show for the nation during both debates and the final legislation that emerged on both counts has made no one happy apart from Wall Street and Health Insurance companies which were supposedly the entities that the bills were initially aimed at.

Therefore Democrats can quite rightly be very angry with their presidents lack of achievement and instead of Obama finding himself in a position where Republican supporters are angry and Democrats happy he has surrounded himself by dissatisfied voters of all persuasions.

Whether this was by design, incompetence or just a lack of ability Obama probably resides at the top of any compiled list of Presidential candidates whose campaign promises when compared to actions once elected are furthest away from convergence.

Many people are crying out for Obama to restore America’s rightful place on the world scene, it’s moral authority and to keep to the founding fathers principles of liberty and equal treatment under the law for all. He could have easily done this if he had wanted to when he had control of both houses and the good will of the people during the first few months in office but he chose not to and it is very unlikely that he will do any of the following which are all desperately required if America is to turn itself around from its present downward course in history:

-Investigate the last administrations crimes against the American people and all the others it imprisoned, tortured and illegally declared war upon.

-Investigate, idict and convict all those bankers and fraudsters that helped to bring the US economy to the brink of financial ruin. Until justice can be seen to be done and prices paid for the immense greed and huge amounts of fraud that enabled those at Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and the rest to bankrupt the country, take billions in bailouts and yet still pay themselves billions in bonuses many people will avoid the US stock market like a whore with the clap.

-A new independent and powerful inquiry into 9.11 to answer all the legitimate questions many still have about the events of that day including how WTC-7 fell at free-fall speeds breaking all known laws of physics.

-Close down Guantanamo Bay and either try the inmates for crimes they supposedly committed or release them.

-End the war in Afghanistan by convening a peace council with Pakistan, Afghan leaders and the Taliban. No one has ever successfully won a war in the Stan and the USA is not likely to break this mould. It can either leave with its tail between its legs or with some form of dignity.

-Repeal the Patriot Act, stop warrantless wiretapping and restore the US constitution to it’s rightful place as the primary form of law in the country and not as piece of paper to be bypassed when necessity requires.

-Treat whistle blowers who help to uncover government misdeeds and crimes as the heroes they are and not as domestic extremists to be tried for dangering national security. If a government agency, military unit or politician is breaking a law, domestic or international then they need to be punished and held to account and not covered up as is the current modus operandi.

-End the hypocrisy and double standards that make America a laughing stock overseas every time they mention the word human rights or international law when lecturing China or Iran.

This might not be a simple or easy list of items to achieve but its not insurmountable and it’s in keeping with what many people believed Obama would do if he was elected anyhow. The fact that not one of these items has been even attempted is a sorry indictment on the state of the Obama’s administration which has publicly complained that the left wing should be jumping in joy at all their great achievements instead of moaning about their lack of progress.

I for one see the sorry state of Obama’s administration and it’s lack of balls in attacking the previous one as a good example of why the false right and left wing political game is just a charade for public consumption. The parties may swap places every now and then and the white house may get a new occupant every four or eight years but the real powers that control the country never have to worry about getting kicked out of office or not being elected as they sit above us mere mortals in their trans national corporations and globalist talking shops.

Let me know what you think. Who is worse, Bush for helping to create the mess the USA is in or Obama for extending it and not keeping his promise to fix it?

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Posted in Analysis & Review, Dark Politricks Articles, Politics.

Tagged with Barack Obama, Bush, Civil Rights, Conservatives, George Bush, Gitmo, Liberals, NDAA, Obama, Patriot Act, President Bush, President Obama, Privacy, Torture, War on terror.

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19 Responses

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  1. gens says

    Did President Bush call the Constitution a “goddamned piece of paper?”
    See: http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_president_bush_call_the_constitution_a.html

    Other than a few sources being misrepresented and/or not throughly research and validated, I find this site to be an interesting read. While I might not agree with everything, I do respect the time. effort and point of views….

  2. darkpolitricks says

    Thanks for your comment.

    Whether or not you believe the source I referenced about that quote you must admit that actions speak louder than words and his actions in respect to ignoring the constitution in regards to illegal spying, unwarranted search n seizure, wars of aggression, blocking of the 9.11 commission, classifying citizens as domestic extremists for being constitutionalists, removal of habeas corpus, loading the country up with debt and so on is not exactly what the founding fathers had in mind when they envisaged the executive branch.

    • gens says

      “Thanks for your comment.”
      You are welcome, again good overall job with this site and content.

      “you must admit that actions speak louder than words and his actions in respect to ignoring the constitution in regards to illegal spying, unwarranted search n seizure,…..”

      First, I apologize for the random-scattered-long-winded comment to follow :-)

      I agree there is/was an overreaching of power and as we now know ( factual – proven and testified ) the government at all level mislead our leaders and citizens with bogus and/or in so many words…. hypothetical information. This does not mean however, the constitution was ignored or abused…one thing to keep in mind, as we progress forward, things change, we must adapt to such changes and the constitution allows for amendments. I in no way, support police state, NWO style politics and Dubya was borderline here, though served to the public and the world as “peace keeping”. I’m not suggesting an actual plotted attempt but over time as we gave up one freedom for another and another…it built up, to a point were I can get my prostate checked, have dental xrays and travel all in one place. Events that lead us into the initial war was an wake up call, America over time became lazy, paying more attention to the world and less on our own security and future growth, we overreacted to many issues to follow. The quote in this article was and had been quickly debunked then and still holds true today, depending on the perspective the source sited is iffy, but does provide an interesting opinion and/or historic look back at media / general feel of the political environment. Even though I’m not a fan of Dubya or heck many of the politicians in place currently…I will say regardless of the “News Spin” they/we all love and respect this country. With that said, inadvertently, power has/had been abused, however, citizens have not lost the ability to correct certain mistakes…we are ultimately still in control. I enjoy good conspiracy theories and yes there’s a small number of people that might wish for an extreme gov takeover, however, the American people would reject such, there’s enough balance in our major gov to slap down any attempt..plus many armed and sane minded citizens to make any attempt well…not worth an attempt. While some point to historic events as proof it can happen, they need to keep in mind, those were different times, information was greatly controlled due to lack of technology and a much greater ignorance of current events and simple logic. Yes, as stated above piece by piece something could formulate overtime, but only if we the people give up or don’t vote smart and cave into smoke and mirror political sewage spewing from sources such as Palin, but we know what her game is all about “me me me me money and attention” and I do not hold that against her in terms of making a profit doing something that any grade school bully could produce with ease.

      The Patriot Act is a shameful joke…the underlining intent ( to protect ) I support, but much of it was written during panic and some cloudy judgment, much of this article makes that point clear, we can have security without taking rights away, temporary or based on a hunch….when its directed at our citizens…terrorist have no rights. Most people that disagree with my stance always throw “warrants take forever and terrorist don’t wait..need to act fast”. So once again 1) terrorist have no rights 2) citizens do and should be handled with care, if theres enough evidence to at the very least jail someone for even an minor crime or potential crime, it doesn’t take long to process warrants/wire taps…but to say, we’ll apprehend on pure suspicion, racial profiling, religious belief / lack of or shady intel is wrong.

      “the founding fathers had in mind when they envisaged the executive branch…..”

      We now live in a distant future and I doubt the founders even came close to envisioning what the world in general would become, the founders were human just like us, education was primitive compared to ours today, they were not in touch 24/7 – real time with the world, etc. What they did was generate a base foundation for us to build on, amend and adjust per modern changes. I’ll add, I’m not of any one political party, I fully support our solders, though unhappy with the war(s), vote based on the “best person for the job”, support the best solutions that will protect and serve the greater population since 100% will never be a factor. While I expressed a distrust or dislike for the Patriot Act above, I’m aware of my fellow citizens greater support of it. Its a law that passed with well over the majority and at the time strong public support. I’m positive that if this law or similar was designed to kill, harm or control the masses like some talk show hosts like to spew nightly was actually in place, taking place, or even brought up in joke…..it and anyone associated with it would be taken care of ASAP. However, far reaching “theory” is just that….an interesting conversation ( entertainment at best ).

      Congress should be judged or blamed if anyone and to some degree citizens…we put these people in office.

      Bush / Obama make up less than one percentage point in terms of Gov as a whole, to point 100% blame on either is more opinion than fact…since it takes a majority to pass a law. Even if the president veto’s or attempts executive power of the pen, congress can fight back and easily win..if and when the situation calls for it. The President can invoke war, yet congress controls the purse..enough check and balances to eliminate any dictatorship-ish progression.

      Which is worse of the two ( opinion ) Bush admin took away more rights and privacy, had a tendency to use war on terror to do well just about anything..war…torture…etc.
      Obama, has provided additional rights and consumer protections, so far with more being projected. Ultimately, I support “any president” regardless, because I respect my fellow citizens, whether my vote won or we agree or disagree with certain policies and hope they respect mine as well.

      – best regards

      • darkpolitricks says

        Thanks for your random-scattered-long-winded comment. It was worth reading and I appreciate you taking the time to visit the site and write about the articles.

        As someone who lives in the UK I can only give my own perspective on what is happening in the USA and cannot claim that my “outisider” views are accurate,
        but sometimes an outsider is able to view things differently from those in the thick of things. And as I exist outside the realms of heated debate that seems to surround so much of American politics
        I occasionally feel like weighing in on the odd subject when something shines out and takes my fancy.

        The main thing that I find so amazing about the USA is just how divided the majority of people are between those who see themselves on the right or the left of the political divide.
        Over here we do not get anything like the nightly news TV talk shows and we don’t have partisan commentary by Olbermann, O’Reilly,Beck or Maddow type personalities and although I do enjoy watching the
        occasional bull fight on US TV I am pretty glad that our politics are not that diametrically opposed when compared to those over your side of the pond.

        However my article on civil liberties is really a commentary on how this false left / right paradigm has been revealed to many people especially those on the left. Over here in the UK
        we have just had a decade of Labour rule and they were the most authoritarian government we have had for a very long time implementing massive waves of CCTV, removed many
        rights and liberties and enacted laws that have gone way too far all in the name of “fighting terrorism”. However after being defeated at the last election we now have a supposedly much
        more civil liberty friendly government and one of their main policies is going to be the introduction of a “freedom bill” that rolls back all these laws that Labour introduced.
        Now I am waiting to see how far they actually go as it’s plainly obvious that politicians of all colours talk a good game on the campaign trail but sadly fail to deliver once in power but so
        far everything seems on track and I am keeping my fingers crossed for a good outcome.

        The article therefore was mainly a look at how Obama who promised a similar rollback of Bush policies during the election has massively failed to deliver and has in fact gone the other way and extended many of the worst excesses that Bush committed. I am in no way trying to claim that UK politicians are more trustworthy than US politicians but it is interesting to find out from a personal perspective whether people feel
        as let down by Obama’s inaction as they did by the initial Bush era action and if both were to be judged by a jury of citizens who would be sent down first.

        Once again thanks for commenting.

        • gens says

          Outside point of views, opinions, etc, are always welcome and vital to any society.

          ” The main thing that I find so amazing about the USA is just how divided the majority of people are between those who see themselves on the right or the left of the political divide. ”

          In realistic daily life, the divide is transparent. Overall what you see and hear on TV left-right-center-far-left-right-etc is more show than actual policy / daily lifestyle. The bulk of the US Gov are actually adults, though it might seem like circus clowns are running things. There are a few nut-jobs and oddly enough they tend to get the most media attention, good or sane news rarely make it to the front pages. What makes America work is its citizens, there are some that act out in irrational ways or tend to hold on to ” the good old ‘days ” but this small minority grows smaller each day as we progress forward in life, time and society.

          In my direct family I’m one of a few thats political-religious ( agnostic ) neutral – I voted Clinton 2 terms ( 1st term was due to picking the lesser of two evils, 2nd term based on job performance ), Bush 1st term, but not the 2nd, Obama 1st term and likely support a 2nd, I’ve always voted mixed or best person for the job. My family is nearly split dem/repub and a few oddballs leaning tea party-ish, yet we still sit together at dinner and we all get along even though we have different views. My neighborhood is similar..matter of fact its like having the UN living next door, enough mix of religion, race and politics in such a small area you would think based on certain talk show host/talking heads there would be mass outbreaks of fighting or death. Yet other than the occasional defacing ( in good tasteful fun ) of political yard signs or taunting each other over current events-winner-looser….we all get along. The bulk of Americans live this way….applies to our political system as well. We do have a few that tend to over exaggerate with metaphors, though after all is said and done…we think very little of them, more or less they offer entertainment. Take health Care, the current Repub repeal is not a full removal of the Law, they are simply proposing the creation of committees to work out a few burps in the Law and there are several issues with mandates etc, that need clarifying / removal. Even as the bill transitioned into a law, it was clearly stated that due to the complexity it would require additional adjustments, thus its being implemented over years, rather than immediately, allowing for any errors to be fixed. But what you hear on the news paints a completely different picture, you’d think Hitler was reborn as a black man…but much of the heated debate is due to political-corporate corruption ( which is part of the human element ) and less about the actual policy.

          Might find this interesting: nearly all life long Republicans – in my family and friends voted for Obama and/or in 2010 Dem primarily ( first time crossing party lines for most ). We are talking about at the very least 40 individuals ranging in age from 18 – 90+ most with a track record of straight ticket Republican voting ( that I keep in close contact with ). To add a little background, White, born-raised Southerners NC/SC/VA, mixed educations, religions and professions

          Our party system is not as binding as the UK in terms of extreme politics. Being a Repub / Dem / other, here is not a matter of right or wrong or one is Orwellian and the other passive. Here again we have enough balance to keep everyone in check. Policies overall become an joint effort, just because we have a Dem in office does not mean Dem views will be dominate. For example, going to War(S) under Bush was supported by all parties and nearly unanimous, same for the Patriot Act…its lazy to just blame Bush or the Skull and Bones / oil conspiracy…..was an joint effort across the board, well over the majority. In the UK you guys seem to have the opposite, winning party, views and policies are not debatable as easily by the loosing party..loosely the winning party could impose an 80% tax hike and little could be done until the next election. Please feel free to correct me, I watch primarily UK shows, thus being the only real source of UK political info outside of news media and friends abroad.

          ” The article therefore was mainly a look at how Obama who promised a similar rollback of Bush policies during the election has massively failed to deliver and has in fact gone the other way and extended many of the worst excesses that Bush committed ”

          LMAO – I think we span several articles :-)

          Agree and slightly disagree, Obama ran on ” yes WE can “, not ” yes I can “, meaning for change to take place everyone ” WE ” will need to contribute in some way. This applies to US Presidents, at the core the President is a ” Project Manager ” in charge of overseeing many branches of gov or sub-contractors. Being President/project manager does not mean full control, no magic wand policies. So, much of the policies put in place, needing repeal, need adjustments, etc are passed on in terms of responsibility to lower level managers ( congress – state Gov, etc ), where they control the work flow, once the project is ready for review or progress review its passed back up the ladder so to speak. In the USA – President – downward in command is much like running a huge business / project. As I stated before its not the burden or blame of one single person ( president ) its the collective ( Government ), presidents mainly set the pace, a figure-head, CEO. Obama has been in office 2 years, rolling back policies, building the economy back up, budget tweaking, etc, no matter the President is not a simple task, can’t be implemented in one day, recovering from the massive war spending is going to take decades, moving forward will take time and careful planing, ” Yes We Can ” is not achieved over night or by some magical policy fairly. Reverting previous Bush Admin policies or being unsuccessful at doing so……since taking office there have been distractions left and right, plus on going economic struggles….if anything can be done, it’ll take time — to be honest I haven’t given this specific issue much thought. however, he has reduced military in certain areas, closing torture detention centers or at least on the surface cleaned them up, refocused key military efforts with nearly full support of congress, made some attempt at mending fences so to speak…..granted these are issues subject to opinion in terms of success. I’ll leave it at ” he could be doing a better job “.

          ” massive waves of CCTV, removed many rights and liberties and enacted laws that have gone way too far all in the name of “fighting terrorism”. ”

          Yeah, this is something we all seem to share in common. I do not like always being watched or feel as if I am. I do not mind so much…store surveillance style security in public areas, ” public ” being key here though. When surveillance reaches into my home, based on little or no evidence or speculation without warrant I have a problem. As an USA citizen if you think I’m up to something go get a damn warrant, shouldn’t be difficult with sufficient proof or even highly likely suspicion.

          Hopefully I’ve been somewhat rational throughout our exchange..been the intent. Now I’m going to break away and rant.

          “fighting terrorism” “war on terror” “war war war war”

          The best way to fight this “war on terror” is to stop acting with compassion, if we ( USA ) go to war, lets ” go to war ” take no prisoners, no white flags will be honored. I personally see no point in sending military into battle only to play by “rules” or use rubber bullets. War is ” win-with-blood ” not oh he’s waving a white flag can’t shoot him. Thus far I can say with certainty that our shared enemies do not show the same restraint…they’ll wave white flags left and right, when captured suicide bomb all the same. When the US first went to war, we should have carpet bombed and been done with it…no we had to play by the rules of ” capture the flag or touch football “. The wars to follow in the name of “war on terror” was a big mistake, it was an excuse to gain something ???? and less going after the 9/11 terrorists. At this point I’m going to blame the world leaders as a whole, they took advantage of an situation in order to achieve some long over due revenge so to speak. Personally, I have a major problem with the US imposing our views on others, we can lend a hand, aide and help heal, but never force democracy on people that don’t wont it or will not respect it. This has been proven to be true with ” Operation Iraqi Freedom “, anyway been there long enough for them to be able to sort things out with out any further ( low ball US estimate $100mil a day ) involvement.

          ” as let down by Obama’s inaction as they did by the initial Bush era action and if both were to be judged by a jury of citizens who would be sent down first. ”

          Bush

          – best regards

  3. John Scrivener says

    It’s not an easy comparison … Obama hasn’t started two wars, he wasn’t the one who brought about the Patriot Act or instituted torture and the indefinite detention of terror suspects … but he hasn’t done anything to alter direction, indeed he has done quite a bit to further the agenda instigated by his predecessors …

    In my insignificant opinion, Obama has so far proved to be no better than Bush, at best.

  4. Mikey says

    You nailed it right here:

    “”George Bush for implementing the decade old war on terror, the high tech modern Stasi Amerikan police state and the corporate takeover of the government or Barack Obama for failing to do anything about it once elected.”

    Both are incomparably anti-democratic, (so I couldn’t really compare them), BUT, I guess I find the administration under Obama just that much worse for mixing self-righteous P.R. while “stabbing us in the back.”

    As an American activist, I feel that we are totally screwed unless we can institute Instant Runoff style voting. I sincerely do not think we have more than 2 or 3 4-year periods left before the crap hits the fan, and no administration or congress we can now vote in will protect us.

    BTW, clever name for a website!

  5. darkpolitricks says

    Hi Gens

    Thanks for replying again.

    Whilst I agree with you on some points on the “war with no rules” aspect I definitely do not for the following reasons:

    -The people in Afghanistan we are currently fighting had nothing to do with the 9.11 attacks. 90% of them had never even heard of the WTC or 9.11. We are just another load of invaders to their country that has been attacked multiple times over the centuries and a continuation of the 30 year old war that started with the Soviet invasion.

    -Whilst we should have no truck with terrorists and we should definitely take out “real” terrorists who plan to us harm,us replace our democratic system with a theocracy, blow us up and so on the indiscriminate cluster bombing, assassinations, kill squads, drone attacks and so on we currently employ in the Stan kill not Al-Qaeda terrorists but farmers, children, women and people who have never harmed you me or anyone in the west . However the survivors and relatives will most likely grow up to despise us for our actions and probably join the resistance fighters wherever they be. The Stan has never been taken and held for any amount of time by any of the great empires of history from Khan to Alexander to the Brits and Soviets. The USA will most likely just be another addition to this long list of failures.

    -We are not at war with a country. We are at war with an idea. You cannot win a war against an idea by conventional means. Whilst many people may disagree about the root cause of the “hate” for the west it is clear that our foreign policy, support for corrupt dictators and our hypocritical support of Israel is a major factor in all of this. Hypocrisy and injustice is a major driver of hate and when you are poor and have little to lose it is easy to look around for someone to blame. We need to reduce these reasons.

    -How do we even know when the “war on terror” is won? Who will we sit down with to sign a peace treaty or surrender agreement. How is this war going to end and if it does end do you think that every thing we have lost will then be replaced? Will we regain all our lost civil liberties, dignity at airports, remove our surveillance society and dismantle our massive police state apparatus? Or will a new terrorist group always spring up just in time to replace the last one so that this war on an idea can continue down the ages.

    The whole reason I think the war on terror is a fraud is that we supposedly went to Afghanistan to catch Bin Laden yet we have not done so. We do not even hear about any attempts to catch him and our government rarely mentions where they think he may be hiding or what we are currently doing to try to catch him. Many people including myself believe he died in 2001 and he is now being used as the perfect bogeyman to extend the war whenever it needs to be moved to an new area like Pakistan or Yemen. Because he is dead he will never be caught and therefore the initial reason for the war will not be resolved. Perfect for those who may see never ending war as a good thing but not good for us or the people our countries attack under this false pretence.

    Anyway thanks for commenting.

    • gens says

      “…aspect I definitely do not for the following reasons:

      The people in Afghanistan we are currently fighting had nothing to do with the 9.11 attacks. 90% of them had never even heard of the WTC or 9.11.

      We are not at war with a country. We are at war with an idea. You cannot win a war against an idea by conventional means.

      How do we even know when the “war on terror” is won? Who will we sit down with to sign a peace treaty or surrender agreement

      The whole reason I think the war on terror is a fraud is that we supposedly went to Afghanistan to catch Bin Laden yet we have not done so. We do not even hear about any attempts to catch him and our government rarely mentions where they think he may be hiding or what we are currently doing to try to catch him ”

      ====

      The work world delayed me :-(

      Forum based communications tend to leave out important or behind the person details, which would aide in understanding said person and intent. I might have – without elaborating my stance, been misunderstood.

      With that said, much of your response I agree with and most would represent views I hold as well. I’ll leave this conversation now, so that hopefully we or others here might focus on other subjects, issues, etc this site provides, also I feel our conversation drifts into many directions and takes away from the original question and content of this post…Bush or Obama whose worst.

      ” Anyway thanks for commenting. ”

      Its always a pleasure to have conversations or debate issues, express opinions with civil-respectful individuals….whether we agree or disagree….or find some middle ground or find our views to be polar opposites. I will admit a few subjects provided on this site I have started researching further..which I might normally “skim-over”. I’m a fan of conspiracy or related material – coast2coast am for example, nice to have a friendly variety of topics and site for which I can view and comment with out being hit left and right by less than open-minded-comment trolls. I look forward to future sharing of “rambling thoughts” :-)

      – best regards

      • darkpolitricks says

        Cheers for getting back to me.

        One of the key ideas behind this site is to try and stay outside the left/right political punch and judy show. I try to link to articles that cover the areas I want the site to focus on (war on terror, police state, state crimes etc) without going down the “all liberals are left wing socialist anti Americans” or “all conservatives are right wing neo con war mongering torture lovers” route that some sites do. Some articles are from left leaning sites and some from right leaning and I will leave readers of my own articles to make up their own minds about the line I walk.

        Whilst I have been attacked by some for printing some content they might feel crosses some theoretical line I am just trying to just provide an outlet for content that the main stream media either ignores or glosses over and therefore the site hopefully provides alternative views and angles on stories whatever the source or political leanings of the author.

        One of the things I would like to do is to get more people commenting on articles as it’s always good to have a debate so in that respect I am glad you took the time out to do so and hopefully other readers will comment more often.

        I hope you will continue to visit and comment on future articles. All my own articles can be found under the “My Articles” link or at the following URL http://www.darkpolitricks.com/darkpolitricks-articles/

  6. Dukeameye says

    Using this writers same logic in the poll “who is worseBush or Obama” then Bush should have presecuted Clinto and CLinton prosecuted Bush 1 and go alll the way back to Washington? This is bullshit liberal bias the way it’s written, not hard to see if you read the way this guy writes and thus it’s propoganda.

    • darkpolitricks says

      Yes you are right. Logically state crimes committed by presidents against their own people or against other countries should be prosecuted no matter what party the president belonged to.

      There is a novel concept that has been written down which is called “law” and supposedly when your country was created all men were created equal under it including those lucky enough to play the role of president for 4 or 8 years.

      Hypocrisy and abuse of power are awful traits and amplified when displayed by those in high office. Therefore when a president abuses his office and ignores your own constitution and international law to fight pre-emptive wars of aggression and ruin your countries reputation and once high moral standing in the world by torturing children and old men all in the name of fighting a war that can never be won only continued down the ages then yes – they should be prosecuted and held to account.

      Maybe if some earlier presidents such as Clinton had the balls to prosecute Bush Snr or Bush W had prosecuted Clinton then latter presidents wouldn’t have felt that they could act with impunity and maybe your country wouldn’t be in the state it is now. Just imagine how many hospitals and schools could have been built with the trillion or so dollars that have been wasted over the last decade blowing your way up across the Middle East making thousands upon thousands of future Muslims angry enough to become the terrorists and fodder for the next decade of the war in terror.

      If it’s liberal to believe that even Presidents should be held to account for their actions then bang to rights – call me a Liberal.

  7. Jennifer says

    I think they are both equally as bad as one another in the aspect of either doing nothing, or over doing. Truth is, I don’t think this country will be in a bettered state, until the choices made in it are back in the peoples hands. If they strip you of your rights, it’s always for a purpose, hence, why don’t they want felons voting while in jail? For the same reason all those ballot counters mysteriously malfunction, or someone is caught being bribed to “fix” them. Self interests and money don’t mix well in government.

Continuing the Discussion

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