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Socrates discusses death of democracy, hubris of empire, devolution to civil war. ‘We the People’ of the US’ choice: follow that path OR demand .01% arrests for OBVIOUS crimes of war, looting, lying

Socrates discusses death of democracy, hubris of empire, devolution to civil war. We the People of the US choice: follow that path OR demand .01% arrests for OBVIOUS crimes of war, looting, lying

By Carl Herman

The strong do what power allows. The weak accept what they must. Athenian 415 BC envoy to the small government of Melos, with the offer to either join Athens empire with paying them tribute, or have all men executed, and everyone else sold into slavery. Melos politely declined Athens offer. Athens attacked, did exactly what they threatened, and resettled the emptied island with 500 Athenian colonists. Melian Dialogue of Socrates contemporary historian, Thucydides.

language warning: Socrates and I speak in the same direct language that caused his execution for corrupting the young.

With potential threat of US civil war, perhaps staged by .01% oligarchs fearing their discovery and arrests, let’s consider Socrates’ analysis to a similar challenge. He explains from my 2016 “interview” with him:

Carl: Socrates! Welcome back!

Socrates: Carl! Thank you for continuing our dialogue. We began discussing Greek history, with connections to your United States of today. Id like us to continue that point for Americans real-world philosophical consideration.

C: Awesome.

S: I witnessed Athenian Empire. Athens demanded tribute-taxes and slaves from dominated city states or death at the hands of our military, as with Melos. Empire is hubris; and the opposite of what we defended from Persian invasions. Quest for empire split our people, and led to civil war with Sparta.

Lets pause here to summarize my society before comparing to the US of today: we used foreign subsidies/tribute-taxes and slavery to fund an expanding military empire. Empire ended with civil war, ignited by the hypocrisy of dominating other free societies while declaring our philosophy of personal freedom. Carl, would you agree this is a fair summary of Athens history?

C: Yes.

S: Good. Lets compare one empire to another: yours.

Do you recognize how the US is subsidized with tribute-taxes and slavery to maintain a global military empire?

C: Yup. Its called the petrodollar (and here): the US cut a deal with the Saud family (a family-owned country called Saudi Arabia) to sell oil only for dollars, then use profits to buy US debt securities. This strengthens the value of the dollar, and allows the US government to fund its empire by selling debt as US Treasuries. So, our subjects pay for our global empire by only using US currency, plow profits back to us as an investment for taxpayer-guaranteed interest, and in exchange we use our military to back their dictatorial fiefdom.

S: And have subject nations ever refused to play by these rules?

C: Theyve tried. When Iraqs Saddam started selling oil for Euros and Yen in 2000, US political leadership and corporate media began calling this CIA asset a bad man rather than a strong man, and ended his regime by US military invasion. When Iran made the same move in 2005, that began war rhetoric lasting to today for regime change. Hey, Soc: do you know what the US called its war on Iraq in 2003?

S: Ill bite. What?

C: (one small chuckle) O.I.L. I shit you not, Soc, thats what they called it: Operation Iraqi Liberation.

S: (extended laughter) And everyone bought that?!?

C: They had to change it when some people began laughing at the tragic-comedy; hubris as you Greeks called it. They renamed it OIF: Operation Iraqi Freedom. Here, let me show you Mugsys RapSheets 1-minute video:

S: Wow. Yeah, Freedom isnt any less ironic. Talk about shaming and humiliating the victim for psychopathic pleasure.

Do Americans know much about dictators being good boys to their empire?

C: No. For example, vicious African dictators in oil-rich countries in Gabon, Angola, and Equatorial Guinea get presidential dinners, favorable media, and our protection. But most Americans dont know shit about this, as we say.

S: That sounds familiar. Ok, back to our topic: Athenian Empire ended when our hubris and hypocrisy erupted into civil war. How do you see the US on hypocrisy?

C: The hypocrisy is intense, Soc. Were told the opposite of the truth in everything important. Theres destruction of nearly all rights lawfully guaranteed in the US Bill of Rights within the US Constitution, and in total inversion of promised limited government.

Our leaders roll the world with unlawful and lie-began wars, and Crimes Against Humanity for ongoing policy of poverty thats killed over 400 million human beings just in the last 20 years (~75% children; more deaths than from all wars in Earths recorded history).

They bail out banksters, and use so-called money that is actually debt. They withhold obvious solutions worth literally about a million dollars to every hard-working US household.

S: So civil war or not, Carl?

C: Dude! Youre the one into stating what we can clearly see! How the fuck would I know?

S: Youre right, we cant see the future. But I am interested in your opinion (smiles).

C: (smile) Heres what I see: everybody today can read compared with ~10% in your day. Polling data are overwhelming that Americans register something criminal in leadership and that corporate media lies. Some form of victory seems inevitable, but nobody I know has any objective data whether victory will be peaceful or violent, and when the tipping-point will occur.

S: So we can agree on the similarities of Athenian Empire to US Empire today: both engage in expanding empire, both demand a form of tribute-tax, both engage in hypocrisy, and the US is at risk of a form of civil war that ended Athens Empire.

C: Agreed.

S: (chuckles) The single person who swayed public judgment against me was a clever politician named Alcibiades. He played public ignorance and fears for his own advancement. He was a real dick, as you say. Oh, and so was Aristophanes.

The public were too stupid to see through Alcibiades. He would engage in our conversations in Athens as a young man, but like many lawyers, learned rhetoric to manipulate rather than reveal facts. I was blamed for corrupting him, of course, and causing his vices. He framed the need for more and more empire in a way your US oligarchs would embrace. Do you know how Thucydides quoted him, Carl?

C: No, I dont know this one.


We cannot fix the exact point at which our empire shall stop; we have reached a position in which we must not be content with retaining but must scheme to extend it, for, if we cease to rule others, we are in danger of being ruled.

C: Wow.

S: Wow, indeed.

C: And Athens killed you rather than face their oligarchs truthfully and honorably.

S: Yes.

C: So the central question for Americans today is whether they have the integrity and courage to voice the obvious lawless hypocrisy of their leaders, or remain oblivious to evil. At stake is either a continuing evil empire, or danger of its collapse into civil war.

S: Yes.

C: Hey, Soc: what do you think of my call for the public to demand arrests of our .01% criminal leaders?

S: Its truthful. They are criminals. The proper citizen response is to lawfully stop their crimes, especially those with Oaths that honor the clear rights and laws your country claims to be founded upon. This would seem to be central to military and government service.

C: Let me show you this 90-second clip calling for arrests:

What do you think?

S: Strong. Hes feelin it, as you say.

C: How can I best communicate this idea?

S: How could my few allies communicate to Athens jury to find me innocent of corrupting the youth, rejecting the Gods, and to vote against my execution?

C: Thats not an inspiring comparison, Bro. Wed better have a better base of informed citizens today than you did.

S: Yeah, youll need them. If you are meant to win.

C: If we are meant to win well need something more than we currently have, yes. Any words of encouragement for us, Socrates?

S: Dont worry about the outcome of your nation or this world. Only act with virtue, which is all that is given you to act upon.

C: That seems wise. (smiles)

S: Yes. If I taught anything, its that I have nothing to teach; I dont know anything beyond that which anyone can point to and see for themselves. (smiles) Theres a corollary.

C: Please.

S: No human is wise; none can see beyond what anyone can see with looking. Only God is wise. Have you found anyone who can point to the future with any certainty, any knowledge to give anyone any realistic encouragement? Thats what you asked for: words of encouragement.

C: Never. Just people with enough wisdom to trust what they could point to and prove, and ask enough questions to disprove liars claiming facts they couldnt prove, or that the facts proved they were liars.

S: So youd better leave encouragement with trusting God. Do you?

C: I do.

S: So we all move forward in literal good-faith effort! (laughs) Another day of patient activism in the Empire!

Enjoy the adventure on this beautiful planet, Carl. It will only get more interesting!

As I said before: you have more friends than you know, and every step forward invites so many more of your brothers and sisters to join us.

Divine justice is the law.

C: Thank you, Socrates. Perhaps well speak again. (bro hug)

S: Oh, you know me: I always have something to talk about! I do have another topic Id like to address with you. Would you like to know, or have it be a surprise?

C: Dude, dont leave us hanging.

S: Did you know that the best way to characterize me in your terms today, is that I was the leading wacky conspiracy theorist of my day?

C: Wait, what? You?

S: Obviously. Think about it. Until our next conversation, Carl. Peace.


Interview series:

Satire series:


Note: I make all factual assertions as a National Board Certified Teacher of US Government, Economics, and History, with all economics factual claims receiving zero refutation since I began writing in 2008among Advanced Placement Macroeconomics teachers on our discussion board, public audiences of these articles, and international conferences. I invite readers to empower their civic voices with the strongest comprehensive facts most important to building a brighter future. I challenge professionals, academics, and citizens to add their voices for the benefit of all Earths inhabitants.


Carl Herman is a National Board Certified Teacher of US Government, Economics, and History; also credentialed in Mathematics. He worked with both US political parties over 18 years and two UN Summits with the citizens lobby, RESULTS, for US domestic and foreign policy to end poverty. He can be reached at [email protected]

Note: has blocked public access to my articles on their site (and from other whistleblowers), so some links in my previous work are blocked. If youd like to search for those articles other sites may have republished, use words from the article title within the blocked link. Or, go to, paste the expired link into the box, click Browse history, then click onto the screenshots of that page for each time it was screen-shot and uploaded to webarchive. Ill update as hobby time allows; including my earliest work from 2009 to 2011 (blocked author pages: here, here).



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